Episode 115: Millennials n’ Money with Karen Manahan and Ryan Husk 

Description:

The WealthAbility Show #115: Are millennials driving you crazy? Is it possible they are taking blame for a much larger shift in attitude by society as a whole? In this episode, Ryan Husk and Karen Manahan join Tom to discuss why millennials act the way they do, and why they probably won’t stop.

Pre-order Tom’s new book, “The Win-Win Wealth Strategy: 7 Investments the Government Will Pay You to Make” at: https://winwinwealthstrategy.com/

Looking for more on Ryan Husk or Karen Manahan?

Ryan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahusk/

Karen’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-man…

 

SHOW NOTES:

 

00:00 – Intro

04:30 – How do millennials see money?

08:16 – What are some of the differences between their view and the generations before?

15:28 – Why do millennials revere the work-life balance?

18:12 – Is ‘working from home’ a trend that will fade or is it here to stay?

23:45 – How can boomers work better with millennials?

Transcript

Announcer:
This is The WealthAbility® Show with Tom Wheelwright. Way more money, way less taxes.

Speaker 1: Welcome to the WealthAbility Show, where we're always discovering how to make way more money and pay way less taxes. Hi, this is Tom Wheelwright, your host, founder and CEO of WealthAbility. So a little while back, we had a conversation with Mark Bauerlein, professor at Emory University about the idea of, there's some movement or it appears that there's some movement on millennial generation away from capitalism towards socialism. So I got some feedback. My kids are both millennials, and two of my partners are millennials. And they're here with me today. And I wanted to really look at the other side of this because I want to see how do millennials view money. What's their… Because now that millennials are all grown up, they're partners in companies. They're business owners. How do they view the millennial generation, how do they view the baby boomer generation when it comes to money, and what is wanted and what's desired? Because I'm pretty impartial here as to what I'm looking for. I'm just looking for the information.

              And my question is, so how do we discover how to… First of all, one is how do we reconcile these two generations? Because there is some reconciliation clearly that needs to be made when you've got the baby boomers saying what I consider to be derogatory remarks about millennial generation. You have millennials saying, “Hey boomer, you don't know anything.” So that's the question we're exploring today. I just thought it'd be fun. Because two of my partners, Karen Manahan, with Wheelwright Manahan, my CPA firm. And Ryan Husk is my partner and my software company, PLA Software. I just thought, I actually have two partners who are millennials and who do a terrific job in their position. So I wanted to explore it from the millennial viewpoint. So if you would, Karen, you just give a little bit of your background and then Ryan, a little bit of yours and where you are right now. And then we'll just have a good conversation about this.

Speaker 3:

As mentioned, Karen Manahan. I'm originally from Illinois. We got to work with Tom and his company when I graduated college about 12 years ago. So we've been working together for a while and partners at our firm the last few years here as well. I am just on the edge of the millennial. I technically qualify as one. Although I, myself, don't quite see that I fit in as well. Anytime you make a generalization, I think you're going to… That you just can't with so many people and such a wide range of ages. Very different, I think. And so I don't quite fit in, but I do see a lot of the characteristics in others. Maybe not myself, but people that I do know, or that I did go to school with. So I'd be interested to share some of my thoughts with you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. And Ryan, give us a little bit of your background.

Speaker 4:

My name's Ryan Husk. I have a background largely in technology. I've worked for Apple. I had my own business. I currently work at Twitter, for better or worse. And these days, it's a little bit chaotic, but I focus on strategic partnerships between companies, which inherently means finding common ground and mutually beneficial deals. So I think that that's certainly something that can be achieved both in business and then personalized, when we talk about the generational divide.

Speaker 2:

So let me ask you this question, Ryan, let me start with you. And Karen I'd like you to chime in too. So from when you look at you and your friends, of course, and other employees that you associate with are going to be largely your age group. From a millennial standpoint, how are they looking at money? How are they looking at finance? How are they looking at their jobs, their employment? How do they look at that? How do you see that differently than how your parents or their parents might have looked at it?

Speaker 4:

I think that millennials have grown up in a generation that's really has gone significantly into capitalism and commoditization. And that doesn't just apply to the things that we consume, but it applies to how people are seen and treated as commodities. I would say that there's probably a pretty… Mark talked a bit about, it's about me. It's about myself. And that's true for many reasons, and one of them is because advertising and companies have made it about individuals. So that's what we're told. It is about our individual contribution to a business. It is about our individual ability to impact changes. It's less focused on teams and more focused on, what can you do to be better than the person next to you? So I think that is reinforced in how we see the world that we want to create and the impact that we want to make.

              I think that can be a really good thing when you have a whole generation of people that think they, as an individual, can create change. That's a great thing. I think that it can be a bad thing when it takes away from the ability to organize and collaborate. So that not only applies to business and politics and social groups, but it can impact the outcome of what you're trying to achieve. So when I look at… I'm based in San Francisco, which is a bubble in and of itself, where individuals are making a huge amount of money. Right out of college, joining tech startups, where there's a crazy amount of competition. So when I look at my friends, I see my friends who are definitely benefiting from the businesses that have created capitalism or that have been created in the capitalistic environment.

              At the same time, there are groups of people that are starting to see the detrimental effects of just focusing on the individual and wanting to move towards bettering things from a societal perspective. So what was interesting about the conversation I had with Mark was that, he had a lot of areas where he disagreed with himself, in a way. His argument was the millennials are so self-indulgent, but at the same time we want to provide… We're fighting for support systems for everyone in our society, right? He talked about Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter is supported by people across generations, across color, across different identities. He also said that, we're narcissistic, but we're saying everyone should have equal rights. He said, we're stuck in our own bubble, but yet at the same time, he's saying we're advocating for equity for marginalized groups. There are so many contradictions in the way he described us, that it was hard to really understand what his argument was for, because it was all generalizations and there weren't any substantial points.

Speaker 2:

Interesting. So Karen, what's your take? Because of course, you have a whole staff. Mostly millennials on the staff. So what are you seeing either in them or your friends or… You say you feel like you're different. So what are you seeing different, and what are you seeing the same when it comes to the millennial generation? When it comes to viewing how they view money?

Speaker 3:

I think the biggest difference I see is the way that I look at things and the way others look at things versus the way I was brought up. My dad is a businessman, purchasing manager. One of the big things, the way you look at your job is vastly different. He looked at a job as something you're very grateful for. You want to stay there until you're retired. That would be a good goal, to stay there forever. Now, I'm seeing… And I even feel it a little bit with just everybody that I'm interviewing currently for a new position that, that's not what they're looking for. They're looking for something new. They want to change. They want to get better benefits. They want to get a better pay raise. It is more about them.

              Well, that's a good thing for a potential job candidate or employee. It is a definite change in mindset. It's not about how can I contribute to this team and be here forever. It's more about, well, what can I get out of this company at the moment, and what does it look like on the other side? Is the grass greener on the other side? I think my dad's generation never really considered that at all. If you talked about leaving, he'd say, “Well, why? What's wrong.” So just never thought about looking elsewhere to see what you could better yourself as. And there are pros and cons on that. I even find… My dad instilled a lot of qualities in me of hard work and dedication and commitment. So I do feel like I may have those more than other generalized millennial types.

              But I do find myself looking at a resume saying, “Oh, you've worked somewhere for just a couple years each.” Is that a bad thing or is that a good thing? I don't know. I'm confused now if that's… We're in the middle. Is that good? Is that bad? Maybe. So the outlook on jobs is definitely changing, and I think we need to adapt and see how things work and don't always assume that what has worked in the past will be working in the future.

Speaker 2:

Hey, if you like financial education the way I do, you're going to love Buck Joffrey's podcast. Buck's a friend of mine. He's a client of mine. He's a former board certified surgeon, and he's turned into a real estate professional. So he has this podcast that is geared towards high paid professionals. That's who he is geared towards. So if you're high paid professional, you're going, “Look, I'd like to do something different with my money than what I'm doing. I'd like to get financially educated. I'd like to take control of my money and my life and my taxes.” I would love to recommend Buck Joffrey's podcast, which is called Wealth Formula Podcast with Buck Joffrey. I hope you joined buck on this adventure of a lifetime.

              That's interesting. One thing that's struck me from both of you is you've talked about this individualism and wanting to succeed myself, and it's about myself, Ryan, you mentioned that. Again, generalization, right? But what I've heard, and I can't speak to it because I'm the boomer, is that millennials like cooperation, and they like community and so forth. How do you… So now I'm confused. So is it individualism or is it community? Which one is it, Ryan?

Speaker 4:

I think what is happening is that we were raised in an individualistic society, and as we've gotten older, we're trying to see that's not the best way to do things, even though that's what we were told through every form of media and traditional media and digital media that we consumed. So that was our mindset, and as we've gotten older, we've recognized that is detrimental to us. The reason why… We aren't taking care of a huge amount of people in our country. We aren't taking care of the environment. We aren't being conscious of the impact that some of the businesses that are operating are having on a large amount of people, and we're starting to see that and understand larger context of what success means and say, “Oh, I feel like I'm going in a direction that I'm not comfortable in.” And trying to move away from that individualistic point of view and start to consider things as a whole.

              There's a lot of people who think that times were better in the 50s or whatever. But in the 50s, there was also this idea of community and taking care of your neighbor and being there for one another. I don't think millennials are the only people that are only focusing on themselves as an individual. I think that's broadly across society, regardless of whether you're Gen X, a baby boomer. There are a lot of people who are older who are just focused on what they have as an individual and what impacts them as an individual. So I think millennials are seeing how that's impacted society as a whole, and we're early enough in our… I don't know. Maturity, where we're just identifying what we can do to shift away from that.

              And to what Karen said about the approach to business. It's, work hard, be dedicated, be committed to what you're doing. I fully believe that. I think what's different now is that a lot of people don't feel like those same things are given back to them. When a business hires someone at your same level, but pays them a hundred percent more than what they're paying you because they were competing for that, does that feel like, “Oh, well, changing jobs means I can get more money? Like-

Speaker 2:

Well, so what's interesting about that, Ryan, if I can interrupt just for a second, is that that's not different. The difference is that now people know what other people are making.

Speaker 4:

For sure.

Speaker 2:

When I was an employee, you didn't know. So somebody could be… That absolutely was going on when I was an employee. I know for a fact it was, but you didn't know. No, you didn't talk about salaries. There was no Glassdoor. There was no transparency. So it seems like that's part of what's going on here, is you've got a much more transparent situation than we had. Okay? So you really have… I look at the generations. My parents grew up during The Depression. So everything was hard. So they literally… Karen, you said, you just were indoctrinated to just be grateful you've got a job because guess what? It was so hard to have a job during that 25 years of The Depression. So we are just so grateful for it, and that is something that was passed on. So now we've taken that level.

              When it comes to the view of money, one of the things that is very clear, at least from my point of view, is that it's not the millennials don't want money, it's that they want the same amount of money, but they want less work. So there's a lot more talk about work life balance. So let me tell you, Ryan, when I was growing up, there was no work life balance discussion ever. Okay? That was not a discussion. And that's a big discussion in the last 10 to 20 years. So can you look at that? Can you talk about that a little bit because is this, that we're… So as an employer, I feel the pressure on salaries, but I also feel the opposite pressure that, “Okay, well, we want the salaries, but we don't want the hours.” So can you talk about that because I get a little confused on that one.

Speaker 4:

When you were growing up, I don't think there was email and Slack and cell phones.

Speaker 2:

True.

Speaker 4:

And when you were off the grid, you were actually off the grid.

Speaker 2:

That's true.

Speaker 4:

I think there's become an expectation that if you have your phone on you, you're able to work because if you have your phone on you, you can work. So there's no longer a physical divide or a clock to punch, or a person who has to come see you to work. You can get me on the phone in the middle of the night. You can get me on the phone if I'm halfway across the country, you can get me on Slack if I'm mid-air on a plane. And when people want things done, they're going to take advantage of that. So you didn't need [inaudible 00:17:00] balance.

Speaker 2:

So you think the hours were much more defined-

Speaker 4:

Yeah. There were-

Speaker 2:

… than they are now?

Speaker 4:

There were actually barriers. Now, you'll have people who will be like, “I know you're on vacation, but here's a Slack message.” When you were on vacation and [inaudible 00:17:14].

Speaker 2:

I get those same messages from [inaudible 00:17:17].

Speaker 4:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we have to put work life balance in place now because the divides that-

Speaker 2:

[inaudible 00:17:23].

Speaker 4:

… previously existed, no longer exist.

Speaker 2:

Here's a question. One of the things, we've got two years of everybody working from home. Right? And one of the things we're finding is that some… It tends to be… I'm not going to generalize it as millennials. I'm going to just say with employees. We're seeing some employees who say, “I refuse to come back to the office. There's so many options now where I know I could get a job somewhere else, working remote, that I'm not willing to go back to the office because when you force me back to the office, I just go find someplace else to work.” You can do that in a tight employment market like we have now. It won't always be that way, but my question is, do you see that happening for long periods to come?

              Do you see that as a millennial group, this is… Again, if I want to be collaborative, but I want to work from home and I'm going, “Okay, I get we've got Slack, but it's not the same thing as being in the same room.” So how are you guys looking at that from a cooperation, collaboration, things like that? Are you seeing that, well, we have so many technical tools that we don't need, that personal interaction that's physically in the same place, or are you seeing that… Or do you think that that will eventually fade somewhat where people will want to come back, physically? What do you think?

Speaker 4:

I don't know. Karen, do you want-

Speaker 2:

What do you think, Karen?

Speaker 4:

… to jump in?

Speaker 3:

I don't think it will fade. I don't think it's going away. To me, there's part of it as a business, where, “Okay, can you actually get your work done? Do you have the tools and technology you need to get your work done?” Yes. That's great. But then, I think there's also more of a media push and just a general worldwide change in the last couple years, which has influenced younger generations, even younger than myself to say that, that's not the focus anymore. Different things like, gas prices and travel and just different messages about pollution and the environment. And the ability to work from home fixes some of these things. There's a lot of other factors pushing at this generation. So I think this is starting-

Speaker 2:

[inaudible 00:19:59].

Speaker 3:

… to become part of them and how they're growing up. It wasn't really part of when I was growing up. So it really is not… I don't know if it's a millennial thing or maybe the next generation will… I think you'll find more and more that they can get that interaction with people. They find that fulfillment in other ways. I do think there's a benefit to working with someone face to face, definitely. I know that because I've worked in an office and that's how I learned. You knock on the cubicle next door like, “I have a question, please.” You have to overcome those physical… You have to actually get up and go talk with someone. But I think for the future generations, the way that just the economy and the world is shaping, it's going to be very hard to go back to the way it was because we are different.

Speaker 2:

Well, you can't ignore that, we're all in a home office. I happened to be in my studio, but my studios next to my home. Ryan, I know is in his home office. You're in your home office. So here we are talking about being in a home versus going to the office, and we're all home. It used to be… I remember three years ago, if I did an interview, I had to go to this studio. I had to go to Fox Studio, or I had to go to NBC Studios or something like that. I physically had to be there. I don't have to do that anymore. So what's your take on that? I thought that was really interesting, Karen. What's your take, Ryan, as to what you see happening for the future, from a workplace standpoint, with basically business, period?

Speaker 4:

Yeah. I think there's different types of work. I think that there's collaborative work. I think there's individual work. There's headstand work. There's training. And at the moment, I work for a company that's remote first, which means that be remote if you want to be. There is an office for you if you want to go into it, and there are people there that want to be in the office. I found that when I go into the office, I have a really good time. I get the chance to socialize. I get free meals, very cool. And I'm not nearly as productive because I'm chatting with people. I think being at home when you have to accomplish some work, it can be really, really helpful to not have some distractions. You get other distractions like, kids, laundry, dog, whatever it is. But I think there's work that you do as an individual, and then there's work that you do that's collaborative. And having a place to go to be collaborative, to dedicate time to travel, to do that, I think that's incredibly important.

              I think that the fact that all of us are in a position where we can choose to be remote is a huge privilege. There are many, many jobs in industries where you can't be remote and you have to be in person. So I recognize that the choice that we have to be remote or not remote is absolutely a privilege and something that we want to be appreciative of. I think that when I look at the companies who are requiring people to return to the office, oftentimes, they've made a huge investment in commercial real estate.

Speaker 2:

Correct.

Speaker 4:

So not wanting that space to go to waste is probably very high on their list of reasons to have people return to the office. And I'd be curious because it's going to vary from company to company. I would be interested to see if there is a drop in productivity when people are working remotely because in my experience and with the people that I've worked with and the companies that I've been involved in, I haven't seen that. I've seen increased output.

Speaker 2:

I think it depends on what you mean by productivity. So I think if you're talking, I have a job to do production wise… So I'm basically a piece of equipment. And I'm a piece of equipment, and I'm going to get my job… I've got basically cave time. If you think of it as cave time, I can do that better at home. I have no question. Collaborative time, I think is definitely not as productive from a distance as it is in person.

Speaker 4:

Sure. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Because I see that because I do so much training and so much teaching that I can tell a huge difference. The people who are there live have a completely different experience and a much more rewarding experience than the people who are coming in remotely. So last thing, so we're going to wrap up here, I'd like you to think about one thing that one piece of advice, you would give to baby boomers when it comes to working with millennials. So Karen, you first.

Speaker 3:

One piece of advice. I don't know. I don't want this to sound too mean, but it's just to fully listen. I think really anyone that is listening to a differing opinion, if you start to listen to the person, and then you just shut off because you're already thinking about what you want to reply or why it's different, you're not going to be able to ever really understand what they're saying. I do think we're that different in some ways where, if you don't actually take some effort to listen and try to think about why that person feels the way they do, or why they're saying the things they're saying, you will not be able to come to a common ground. So I think fully listen to each other. And I think that's just a general life advice and a good habit to have. But in particular, with these differences in thoughts about finances and life choices, it's very important one to consider.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Thank you. Okay, Ryan, last word.

Speaker 4:

I would encourage empathy. When you think about how you all were once hippies, and the adults viewed you as these crazy people that didn't know what they were doing with their long hair and their liberalism, and they didn't understand politics. Let's keep in mind that this is a cycle through generations. Because our points of view are different, it doesn't put us as adversaries. And we have been raised with… We are one of the most educated generation [inaudible 00:26:21], and we are not afraid to challenge ideas. We're not afraid to push for what we think is better. I will say that I found it really interesting that Mark wanted to solve all the millennial problems with new music and new stories for us. I don't think that that's… We don't want to be pacified. We want to make an impact, and we want to make a difference and that's going to come with change.

              And I think that there have been ways that baby boomers have changed society to benefit the world that they created. And we're going to do the same, and we're going to see that from the next generation of the coming. So what I would say is, we're not that different. We're just at different stages in our lives. Baby boomers are trying to preserve what they built whereas millennials are trying to build something new for ourselves. And there's going to be areas where we butt heads, but that's okay. And that's how it's been going for generation after generation. So we're [inaudible 00:27:20] place.

Speaker 2:

No. No questions. No question. Well, thank you so much. Manahan, Ryan Husk for… I thought this was terrific, very refreshing, and I do think that those last pieces of advice is really… Maybe we're not that different, but what we really need to do is listen to each other and understand what other people are coming from. And I guarantee when we do that, we'll always make way more money and pay way less tax. Thanks everyone. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 1:

You've been listening to the WealthAbility Show with Tom Wheelwright. Way more money. Way less taxes. To learn more, go to wealthability.com.